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Posted on Fri, Dec 23, 2005 13:51

Angel,
Thank you,
October I resigned from my job that I had been at for 22 years, and in total I had been an alcohol and drug counselor for 29 years. So, I know there is more than one way to deal such a distructive addiction. I think a key part is our spiritual condition, so how we achieve that is the journey we choose to undertake.
Spyder



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Posted on Fri, Dec 23, 2005 12:58

Angel,
As an odd side note and twist.... they indeed have been working on a cure for it for years. Just check on line even...

But I say.... Yeah when

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Posted on Fri, Dec 23, 2005 12:13

Well said Seeme.....
I never had a drinking problem....
I had a problem drinking.
Having worked in the "field" I can say that there are over 270 different recovery type programs. The attrition rate exceeds 70% in AA. Sad facts but that is the best program. Nothing else has come close. However, I am not a victim but a blessing.... one day at a time. My problem was living and that did not change until I began to participate in this thing we call life.... It is not only a physical disease but a spiritual one too.

When I see someone with a victim mentality in the program... I see someone who is destined to go back out. It is a 100% fact. Too, I never make excuses for my bad behavior. When I stopped drinking that behavior went away. But also, that was a new beginning for me... learning to live life on lifes terms. For me, it takes AA and NA. Those people are winners and together "we" make it ODAT. Anyone who has studied the program knows it was based on the Bible. A fact that is not really broadcast as it MUST appeal to ALL to be MOST successful. I even attend a group that parallels the BB and the Bible. As a side note, atheist really do not attend it.... but even they come to believe in a Higher Power if they admit it or not. The "program" is all about living....

The biggest bike group around here is called the Holy Riders. Go figure? A bunch of sober bikers that love God.

As one says. Ill drink when

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Posted on Fri, Dec 23, 2005 11:36

.

  


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Posted on Fri, Dec 23, 2005 11:19

Spyder...

  


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Posted on Fri, Dec 23, 2005 11:07

You are a sweetheart! I try and not form my own opinions anymore..I just gleen from the bible and listen to what He is telling me. I do like good conversation though..as long as we listen to each person even if we dont agree we still might learn and keep the respect.

  


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Posted on Fri, Dec 23, 2005 10:56

Angel

the thing is we can agree to disagree

i respect your opinions--and your strength in them

they aren't mine, which is ok

P

  


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Posted on Fri, Dec 23, 2005 10:50

OK ..I wanted to keep my word ansd not come back here..DARN..LOL..You guys got me! I will say one more thing....I don't want to sound like I'm pushing religion on you.. This is what I know in one day of reading the bible....."The wisdom of this world is foolishness to God". I see the running in families disease as a spiritual battle not a physical one even though it does affect the family physically as well.

I am glad to see ANY person conquer their demons!!



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Posted on Fri, Dec 23, 2005 10:43

Angel

i don't take offense to the difference of opinion in it

for me i feel it is a disease--yes it runs in families and they have proof of a gene issue in the native americans being more suspectable to it

truthfully it doesn't matter which we believe it is--the reason is because clean and sober is a good thing---whichever way we want to look at it--and more importantly how the person afflicted/addicted needs to see it to stay clean and sober--in their battle what way we classify it is of little importance--the way they classify it so they can heal--that is what is important

the reason it is a disease for me is i grew up with it and like a mental illness it affects all those it touches and creates havick and dysfunction--it affects all aspects of those touched lives--just like any disease does

so the reality maybe that the main person that is addicted it maybe self control--it may be the lack of or damage to a certain gene--the family has a disease--the disease of dysfunction--that my dearest Angel comes from my many yrs of therapy and social science classes


OH and i've never has a problem with addiction to drugs or alcohol---just those that have--family members



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Posted on Fri, Dec 23, 2005 10:22

Angel,
I was sitting here trying to decide if I should respond or not. I have been clean for 32 + years now. Heroin and alcohol. What you brought up is and will probably always be a source of debate and how we view it depends on what circles you run with. I can tell you one thing for sure, when you hear of a person who is clean and sober, our world is a safer place to live, at least in my case. So, I hope this makes sense.
Spyder



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Posted on Fri, Dec 23, 2005 09:21

OK Seeme....Here I go..**Now opening a can of worms**

It is not a disease...you can't catch it...you are not born with it...it is a self-control issue...do you think the drug addict has a disease too? It is called an addiction...the cigarette smoker has the same disease then....show me the cells in our body that are mutating to give you this "drinking too much alcohol disease"....like I said...be free g/f you are not an alcoholic and they are not working on a cure...I went to AA and NA myself...they have lots of good points and have helped a great number of people. But I wont stay in a victim type mentality or make excuses for my bad behavior. Period.

I hope you dont take what I said as a personal attack Seeme...this is just what the Lord has shown me in my experience and I cant make you believe what I already know...it is a realization and freedom that each individual needs to come to on their own. I have had the same conversation with several people who want to stay where they are at in this thinking...but I am not here to argue about it.....so with that said.....PEACE...and I will be leaving this thread hoping this is at least thought about...

**Putting a lid on it**



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Posted on Fri, Dec 23, 2005 07:24

Harleys1Angel write:
I'm glad to see both of you here...One thing that always bugs me is people who have quit drinking and they still call themselves alcoholics...what a shame! For those people.....If you have quit drinking, you are no longer an alcoholic...end of story! Be free already!


i do understand what you are trying to say buttttttttttt from those around me that are alcoholics and the classes i've taken and going to plenty of Al-anon and AA meetings to help me understand the disease better

the disease is always with them H1A--they are in recovery just like someone who is a cancer survivor--the recovery is there survival

i know those that after many years of being sober think that they have control of the disease and can drink again--NOT--that only leads to falling off the wagon

sooooooo yes once an alcoholic the disease is always there and in acknowledging that those inflicted with the disease can take the appropriate actions by obstaining from drinking

by not drinking and acknowledging the disease exists allows those inflicted freedom--by disclaiming there is a problem allows some to inappropriate behavior and the possiblity of dealth most of the time

the best thing we can do is to be there for those we love that have the disease and not be an enabler

PEACE G/F



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Posted on Fri, Dec 23, 2005 06:55

I'm glad to see both of you here...One thing that always bugs me is people who have quit drinking and they still call themselves alcoholics...what a shame! For those people.....If you have quit drinking, you are no longer an alcoholic...end of story! Be free already!



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Posted on Fri, Dec 23, 2005 06:42

Howdy and welcome to the forum and the good life!
tree



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Posted on Thu, Dec 22, 2005 20:34

Hello. My name is Carl and I am fairly new at this site. I was glad to see the Clean and Sober Forum. I have been c&s since 6/28/2002. I quite drinking a few months after I got my bike - I sometimes call it my $20,000 therapy.



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Posted on Mon, Oct 31, 2005 13:05

Hi Frank,
just read your profile and loved your "It doesn't interest me" portion. Story of my recovery deals with absolute grief, surrender and joy. Give me a yell. Riding again is what saved me from the abyss of the tragedy that led to me getting sober.
LadyKat610
Hi Frank,
just read your profile and loved your "It doesn't interest me" portion. Story of my recovery deals with absolute grief, surrender and joy. Give me a yell. Riding again is what saved me from the abyss of the tragedy that led to me getting sober.
LadyKat610

  


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Posted on Thu, Oct 27, 2005 12:47

Hi!

Wanted to come on to this thread and say hi to you all. I hardly drink, didn't smoke for 20 years. prefer a natural high, however not apposed to having a little of something to kick it up a notch.

I have been a friend of Bill W's friends.

It is super important to me that my good friends don't over use in any way.

Denial can kill everything: Relationships, lives.

I loved that change quote.... thanks.
I quit smoking cloves; (didn't realize they were addictive!) and am heading back to the gym, problem neck or not. Legs need some work.

Longing for the wind in my hair and the smells after it has rained...
DD
Hi!

Wanted to come on to this thread and say hi to you all. I hardly drink, didn't smoke for 20 years. prefer a natural high, however not apposed to having a little of something to kick it up a notch.

I have been a friend of Bill W's friends.

It is super important to me that my good friends don't over use in any way.

Denial can kill everything: Relationships, lives.

I loved that change quote.... thanks.
I quit smoking cloves; (didn't realize they were addictive!) and am heading back to the gym, problem neck or not. Legs need some work.

Longing for the wind in my hair and the smells after it has rained...
DD

  


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Posted on Tue, Oct 25, 2005 16:13

welcome Kat
welcome Kat



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Posted on Tue, Oct 25, 2005 15:08

HELLO LK!
Yeah, its about change...used to be Ride or Die, and now its also Change or Die!
Welcome and hope to "see' you around!
Frank
HELLO LK!
Yeah, its about change...used to be Ride or Die, and now its also Change or Die!
Welcome and hope to "see' you around!
Frank



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Posted on Mon, Oct 24, 2005 17:03

Hi, I am new to the site and it does my heart good to see how many sober folks are here. I am 12+ years sober and am loving life.
LadyKat
Hi, I am new to the site and it does my heart good to see how many sober folks are here. I am 12+ years sober and am loving life.
LadyKat

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