I know I have not been on the forums alot latley. and I should have said something about this before now.please click on biker news and click back about 8 times to april 29 news 10 now. Pray for my family and the biker community...my nephew has been charged w/ 2 murder counts for a cop who was supposidly chasing him ..however there were two other motorcyclists on the road at that time . he is a new rider and by no means a "crotch rocket " or "cat and mouse" rider. the patriot gaurd went to protect my family from the media going into the court house. the biker community is stannding behind him and for that I feel blessed . yes he has had some troubles. but he has had several emotional and other problems which were mostly family related for some time. it is not at all as the media has portrayed. let us all just consider for a moment that if we had been speeding ..which has not been proven btw...in a cager or on a bike that we could be guilty before proven..anything. I know for a fact that he was not an experienced enough rider to be going that fast. the bottom line is the DA in that town made a public announcement that all bikers should not be in that community and are not wanted. this is a horrible injustice targeted at bikers make no mistake about it. we now are A bad "biker family" I guess. I am asking for all the support from my bk family ..it will make a difference. thank you all from the bottom of my heart..please state your thoughts on if speeding and a cop chases you and dies ..does that deserve federal prision? I for one know I have been guilty of speeding..have you?? not that I tried to outrun cops ..but seriously neither did he .I promise you that.I will try to explain more as I can .. and I will not stop riding ..it's not about a bike ..it's about maybe 2 people made a bad judgement that day. I will see you all in myrtle beach. any comments or support are greatly appreciated. he's only 20 years old and I am more of a biker that he ever was and for thar matter my whole family. we have had overwhleming support from the biker community in ny...I just wonder how bikers got into something that is really nothing more than speeding at best and bad judgement at worse. sorry this is so long but I have neglected this because of my pain and the pain of my family until my mother begged me to plead to those who ride as she knows I do.. but is a proper woman who really has no idea about how great the biker community is ..lets just say first chance I get ..her pretty blonde self is gonna be on the back of a bike and she just found out through the patriot gaurd how much we all care. thank you.

sounds like they're putting the focus on him so nobody will look at whether the cop was a good enough driver to be capable of a high speed pursuit. They should be asking the local police what kind of tactical driving courses the cop had taken beforehand. A car is a deadly weapon in the hands of an inexperienced driver regardless of the fact that he'd been given a badge and one bullet. Cops should make it part of their committment to law and order (yeah, right) to make themselves efficient at driving if they are gonna throw caution to the wind and endanger the public with a high speed chase without the knowledge of how to control it. Throw that back at em, it might make the town take a closer look at the whole story.

The police officer made the decision that ended his life having sufficient information to apprehend the individual at a later time in a safe manner as is evident by his death and the motorcycle riders apprehension. If he didn't have enough information their would be a reward out right now looking for the individual.
If I make a poor decision on a curve and cross the line to be killed by an oncoming motorist, who is responsible?
Is it the motorist who hit me because I made a poor judgement call?
I just think the officer would still be alive today if he had made a better call grabbing the necessary information and let him go for the time. I think his heroic ego got the better of him and it cost him and his family dearly which is a great tragedy.

I have to ask, for what reason was the officer chasing the biker for? Did the biker stop? there are 2 other bikers also. were they all together? Maybe the officer got a little carried away due to him being young and aggresive? I really don't know. Maybe he thought the biker speeding was a danger to society and needed to make a judgement call? I know the bikers are alive but a cop is dead, leaving behind a month and 2 children. What a damn shame. Usually when there is a death, isn't there some kind of charge involved.
Eye, your opinion please.

however you do have my support in knowing that you are in pain as well. If there was a video in the car and it shows the plate # and what happen, then YES that person should most certainly pay the consequences. Maybe time in jail, but he's alive and he'll get out. the cop, gone forever. I just don't know all the facts here, just grabbing pieces here and there.
My heart goes out to all.
I also have another question. the Mayor, or whoever said that bikes were not welcome there. was that said before the incident or after??

I think if it was prior to the computer age and national databases of drivers with licenses being tied to social security numbers, the need for pursuit and the immunity of an officer for his/her actions might make some sense.
However, given the name of the pursued individual and license plate was already known obviously by the arrest, it is obvious that it became a case of male ego and not wanting to be bested in short childish foolishness on the part of the officer. I mourn for his family, but immaturity of judgement for someone in a position of public trust and responsibility should not be condone or excused. Police officers are esteemed with values better than the public they serve and should live up to a higher purpose then their own ego's fulfillment and indulgence. Road rage isn't allowed or acceptable for citizens so why is it allowed in the name of pursuit?
Radio the license in, get the drivers name and go to his/her place of work and pick them up. Even if they leave the state a national alert would easily make the individual apprehendable without a pursuit and most citizens today need a job, use a debit card and can easily be tracked.
I like the Nebraska high speed chase where at speeds up to a 120mph the judge ruled the motorcyclist wasn't reckless because he didn't leave his lane and wasn't carrying a passenger.
Speeding isn't murder or even a crime. It is a profitable measurement aided by laser and radar measureing devices. It is a great revenue generator for the local and state authorities. It does not measure an individuals threat to the public only the velocity of the vehicle and given the speacilized plates available it can be issued with the officers discrimination.

Eye and AJ, always enjoy your dialogues and learn much from you.

If there was probable cause to believe that the old lady fled from the stop and that she knowingly and willfully refused to stop, then in most states she could be charged with murder or manslaughter. If it was believed that she did not know the cop was pursuing her, and she was not comitting a felony, (and driving w/o a seatbelt is not a felony,) then no murder/manslaughter charges would apply.

As for the cop, in most states he would be charged with murder/manslaughter/aggrevated assualt for the death of the child and the others. But in the scenario you mentioned he has already paid the price for his crimes, as he died. In reality though, his agency would still (most likely) be sued for his actions. Most likely this would be for "failure to train and / or supervise properly."

What this also means is that everyone that had ever had anything to do with his training and supervision would be called to the stand to produce records and testify as to what they had ever taught him, what his test scores were, what the lesson plan was, and so on. Joe Blow Instructor taught the cop how to do pursuit driving 20 years ago and now because the cop f'd up, Joe Blow might lose his house and his family's security.

But that stuff never makes the headlines either.

wow , thanks mick , eye and aj for your thoughts on this. I am no expert on the law or anything pertaining thereto. I am fortunate enough to not have been on the recieving end of any such thing. Of course I feel sympathy and pain for the mother of a child who will never know her father. Christi also has a child from another man as well. the debate here is very welcome from me and my family on both the pro and con sides. Just imagine being famous and reading in the tabliods a lot of bs that is not true ...trust me a lot of what has been said is very one sided and against bikers as a whole ..whom my nephew was not ever one like many of us here are. I happen to believe I live in a country where ppl are suppose to be innocent until proven guilty and noone should be above the law. I think we have a military , which i happen to be part of and a judicial system to prove that. however, money , power and the "system " of some may seem otherwise. who else thinks oj is really innocent?? beyond a reasonable doubt, isn't that how it's decided? ...and here there are other suspects but you will never hear about that in the news ..they have "someone" and that is enough in this case and I guess that is more important than anything else.

Wow Eye, I had no idea. RIP Trooper Craig. Best of everything to his wife, stepson and unborn child. As i said before, this is a tragic situation. No one comes out on top when it involves a death, loss of a loved one and serious jail time.
Peace.

they now have another suspect and his bike in custody, however , you will not read about that in the news probably. there are other details, such as the trooper had several citations against him for reckless behavior and was known as "cowboy" because of that. I'm not saying that makes the loss any less tragic, all I'm saying is the facts are not exactly as they appear in the media. the entire thing is unfortunate at best . Just consider that two families are suffering and noone knows the true facts just yet no matter how the media may make it sound.

Oh, and Gefallen is right about NY not having a Pursuit Law. (Seems amazing to me.) But even if that law is enacted the suspect in this case can NOT be charged under that new statute as that would be ex-post-facto. Thus the much lesser charge of aggravated manslaughter and aggravated negligent homicide cannot be expanded.

The suspect was charged with aggravated manslaughter and aggravated negligent homicide, not murder.

How awful..Such a young woman to have to take care of two small children on her own, and go thru the heartbreak of loosing someone who was a part of her and she loved very much..My thoughts and prayers be with you Kristi..

It is alleged that the trooper was passed by someone on a motorcycle (crotch rocket) that was doing about or over 100mph. The trooper turned around and initiated a pursuit which lasted about 2 miles before the trooper lost control, hit a tree, and died a violent death. The driver of the motorcycle did not stop.

Trooper Craig Todeshini was 25 years old and had about 3 1/2 years' experience. In his spare time he was a volunteer firefighter and had been active in 2 different fire / rescue agencies. He was married and had a 7 year old stepson who carried his firefighter's helmet at his funeral. His wife was 8 months pregnant with their first child at the time of the wreck.

My thoughts and support also go out to Kristi Todeshini and the child that will never know it's father.

Good to see you too, Leila! I wondered whatever became of you.

I've been around, AJ. Just busy with work and getting fat, dumb, and happy. As for the pointed-ripping stuff, well, I have been trying to work on that and become warmer and fuzzy-er. It's hard though man, it's hard. Glad to see you too my friend!

-S

This happened in New York? Was the Troopers name Todeschini? From Syracuse?

Well, as it was my old stomping ground, I beleive that NY has the felony murder rule. BUT, if they have to enact this new Pursuit Law, and join the other 18 jurisdictions that have such a law, I cannot understand why "Murder" is the charge...

Here is what the widow said... and here is what NY is doing as a result of:

" The bill is named after 25 year old State Police Trooper Craig J. Todeschini of Geddes, Onondaga County, who was killed in the line of duty on April 23rd. A speeding motorcyclist failed to obey Trooper Todeschini's directive to stop, resulting in a high speed chase and his police vehicle crashed into a tree during the pursuit.

Kristi Todeschini said, "I would like to thank the Senate for acting on this bill today. It should have been addressed many years ago, but unfortunately, it takes a tragedy like this to bring the issue to the forefront. Enacting this bill into law would give prosecutors better leverage to ensure that the punishment fits the crime.

The bill (S.7858) creates the felony offense of unlawful fleeing a police officer in a motor vehicle when a person, after being directed to stop by a police officer or having stopped at the officer's direction, flees or attempts to flee that police officer by driving at a speed in excess of twenty miles over speed limit or engaging in reckless driving.

Under the provisions of the bill, unlawfully fleeing an officer would be a Class E felony punishable by up to four years in prison; if an officer or another person is injured, the offense would be a Class D felony, punishable by up to seven years in prison; and if an officer or another person is seriously injured or killed, the offense would be a Class C felony, punishable by up to 15 years in prison."

Of course, it still does not protect the Citizen from the Sacramento County case ruling in the U.S. Supreme Court:(

AJ

Eye! Good to see you! Baby, this is an awful, no win situation. No matter what the outcome, it is and will be tragic. Let us know how it is going.
Peace.

thanks for your comments and support. only the trooper died and there were two other bikers on the road at the time. this was in syracuse ny. well, eye, if it is proven by substantial evidence that the trooper was actually chasing him , and so far there is no evidence to support that , then yes justice is due. I agree about the firefighters, I happen to be a marine firefighter myself. thanks aj for the info on that other case in Ca. I don't really know what all the facts are yet but certainly it has been subject for targeting "bikers" as no good in that community anyway. my concern is for my family right now and findng out the real truth in this matter. just got back from mb bw and what a blast!!! thanks again all!! ride safe!!

Where ya been Eye? I miss your pointed, ripping, and accute sense of homur-cynicism-sarcasm.

Peace bro:

AJ

Where did this happen?