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james77075
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Posted on Fri, Feb 15, 2008 04:11

..that this free health insurance will be free????.....well to those who dont work or are here illegal maybe just wondering


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cruisineasy1
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Posted on Tue, Feb 19, 2008 06:21

Well, We need to do something different. Small businesses are going under left and right from the burden of trying to provide thier employees with health care. Or..they just plain don't offer it. There is no easy solution. So many now of the working poor fall through the safety net.


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windonheather
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Posted on Mon, Feb 18, 2008 08:28

MM....I too work in a hospital and you are sooooo right. The lawyers are raping this country with their greed. This needs to be controlled


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robin_ls Recommended
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Posted on Sun, Feb 17, 2008 21:24

hi Thanks!


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havfun
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Posted on Sat, Feb 16, 2008 20:49

Quoting: Originally posted by CALIGIRL365 Nothing good is ever free.

Heah! Im good! and Im free! well, cheap anyway!


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Junie2006
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Posted on Sat, Feb 16, 2008 01:53

Quoting: Originally posted by medicinemanrn You are right, free healthcare isnt free. A report in 2006 from Great Briton's universal healthcare states that at any given time 900,000 are waiting for hospital admission, 50,000 surgeries are cancelled each year due to lack of hospital space, the wait for any surgery can be months. As a registered nurse, I know all too well of the hursing shortage we have now. That will not improve with universal healthcare. We are also already preparing for a shortage of specialist doctors by 2020. By requiring all employers to cover their employees insurance costs only increases their costs of services or products. This will then send more jobs overseas and cause more unemployment. Lastly, I carry 6 million in liability insurance. The one way to reduce healthcare costs is to limit liability lawsuits. All too often, many extra tests and procedures are done to reduce liability. I will step off my soapbox now.

It is "free" in Brit as in you have already paid for it so don't have to have money when you get ill. Originally it did work and we were all very proud of it. Mind you as brit - could be better if it was managed better. lot of waste and misplaced resources. Will spend millions on some admin theory and millions on the umpteenth anti drugs anti drink anti smoking campaign - as if we haven't got the message yet. And withdraw 4000 pounds annual grant to the Mental Handicap Charity which raises most of its other resources and depends on volunteer help. Would work if managed better. lot of wasted money. If you pay private you are no more gauranteed a good service than state. in fact state often undoes the mistakes they do. had a chap who went through private to have a simple vasectomy. They made a complete hash of it and he was in pain for months. No one would take responsibity and the only option from private was for him to go back to the butcher who got it wrong in the first place. i had to push for this guy to have it corrected for free. eventually they did. Also same docs and specialists in Private as in NHS so if you have a bad one you have a bad one. But it is a weight off your mind. Brit admin is appalling but better systems for free health care are run on the continent. Its really about British bad admin rather than a bad idea or system. junie


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suburbansweetheart
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Posted on Fri, Feb 15, 2008 21:10

From what I understand Dr.'s dont like the way it is run either they don't make much money and take payoffs so you really only get the good doc's if you have a ton of money..


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medicinemanrn
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Posted on Fri, Feb 15, 2008 09:15

You are right, free healthcare isnt free. A report in 2006 from Great Briton's universal healthcare states that at any given time 900,000 are waiting for hospital admission, 50,000 surgeries are cancelled each year due to lack of hospital space, the wait for any surgery can be months. As a registered nurse, I know all too well of the hursing shortage we have now. That will not improve with universal healthcare. We are also already preparing for a shortage of specialist doctors by 2020. By requiring all employers to cover their employees insurance costs only increases their costs of services or products. This will then send more jobs overseas and cause more unemployment. Lastly, I carry 6 million in liability insurance. The one way to reduce healthcare costs is to limit liability lawsuits. All too often, many extra tests and procedures are done to reduce liability. I will step off my soapbox now.


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Junie2006
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Posted on Fri, Feb 15, 2008 08:54

have a look as how it works in other countries. Here is England tax is about 22-23% the add on top the National Insurance and it usually adds up to about 25$ out of your wage. In Holland - which has an excellent service and very high standards they actually take around 40% out of your wage but you are fully covered fro everything and they have a very intense input when you are ill including a support system that comes in and sorts out your housework kids cooking and husband while you are ill. Also given during first few weeks of having a baby. and during mental relapse so the person is less likely to need hospitalisation. I do not know how much you have to spend to ensure adequate private health cover. and then again if they mess up and lose your money or its not adequate you are stuffed. Whereas in a national Health system nobody pulls the plug or puts you out on the pavement becasue your insurance cover has run out. Now many "mix it" and add private insurance and the health service uses both state and private facilities buying in what they need for the patient. junie


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Junie2006
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Posted on Fri, Feb 15, 2008 07:35

AHHHH!!! This new way of contributing is PISSING ME OFF!!! They have changed it to the forum format. I like to add the comment first not after reading all the other previous bumpth. sorry - digressing. junie


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irishpatti
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Posted on Fri, Feb 15, 2008 07:34

Quoting: Originally posted by james77075
Quoting: Originally posted by NightNurse Good question James. Is free,really free? Nothin's free. There's a price to pay for everything.
oh..i know that..but some are sooo ready to spend others money..not realizing its not the goverments money..but our own tax dollars...the less money the goverment has...the cheaper the care..the longer the wait...and the older you are..and the more expensive the care...the less likely you will get it. not cost effective...polititions..will always be able to afford private health care... and how can anyone make businesses move back to the US?...lol

Some businesses are coming back James. When I worked at First American Title my job was outsourced to Mexico. There were language barriers so it was outsourced then to India. The language barrier continues to be a problem. I have heard that some companies are not happy with the results of the outsourcing.


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Junie2006
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Posted on Fri, Feb 15, 2008 05:43

Quoting: Originally posted by NightNurse
Quoting: Originally posted by james77075
Quoting: Originally posted by NightNurse Good question James. Is free,really free? Nothin's free. There's a price to pay for everything.
oh..i know that..but some are sooo ready to spend others money..not realizing its not the goverments money..but our own tax dollars...the less money the goverment has...the cheaper the care..the longer the wait...and the older you are..and the more expensive the care...the less likely you will get it. not cost effective...polititions..will always be able to afford private health care... and how can anyone make businesses move back to the US?...lol
A good example of how gov/state money is wasted for so called medical costs is the unit I work on. Waste of so much money. Used for everything other than what it is really needed/intended for to provide for the kids.I have also seen the elderly suffer and be terribly wronged by the misuse of funds. It is also a scary futuure vision as to what will happen to us when we get older or may need help. Will there be any SSI left for us?

Same over here. Nothing against the principle - which is marvelous. But when you see the way the money is spent it is not in the best interests of patients or the best interventions. Lots of wasted money and ideas made by beaurocrats who know nothing of the real needs on the front line. A lot of it could be a lot chepaer, easier and more efficient. Also as the govt was paying $3000 per week per patient in a Private Challenging Behaviour Clinic of course it was not in the owners interest to help the patients to get better - and there was a lot of abuse and neglect. But still good for everyone to be supported and provided for. If that was what actually happened. (SIGH!!) Junie


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Posted on Fri, Feb 15, 2008 05:30

Quoting: Originally posted by james77075
Quoting: Originally posted by NightNurse Good question James. Is free,really free? Nothin's free. There's a price to pay for everything.
oh..i know that..but some are sooo ready to spend others money..not realizing its not the goverments money..but our own tax dollars...the less money the goverment has...the cheaper the care..the longer the wait...and the older you are..and the more expensive the care...the less likely you will get it. not cost effective...polititions..will always be able to afford private health care... and how can anyone make businesses move back to the US?...lol

A good example of how gov/state money is wasted for so called medical costs is the unit I work on. Waste of so much money. Used for everything other than what it is really needed/intended for to provide for the kids.I have also seen the elderly suffer and be terribly wronged by the misuse of funds. It is also a scary futuure vision as to what will happen to us when we get older or may need help. Will there be any SSI left for us?


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bdwolf77
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Posted on Fri, Feb 15, 2008 05:24

James, its not going to be free. and if clinton gets in she has said that will attach wages if people don't volenteer to participate in her scheme. almost the same scheme she tried when her husband was in. so no james it will not be free. it will fall on all the hard working folks to bail out the the people who won't try to better themselves. and want handouts. and also look out for your wallet if either clinton or obama get in they both will raise taxes like you've never seen before. sorry I didn't mean to get political. i guess i'm just scared the way we have been betrayed by both sides of the isle. bdwoff77


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james77075
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Posted on Fri, Feb 15, 2008 05:15

Quoting: Originally posted by NightNurse Good question James. Is free,really free? Nothin's free. There's a price to pay for everything.

oh..i know that..but some are sooo ready to spend others money..not realizing its not the goverments money..but our own tax dollars...the less money the goverment has...the cheaper the care..the longer the wait...and the older you are..and the more expensive the care...the less likely you will get it. not cost effective...polititions..will always be able to afford private health care... and how can anyone make businesses move back to the US?...lol


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Posted on Fri, Feb 15, 2008 05:06

Good question James. Is free,really free? Nothin's free. There's a price to pay for everything.


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Junie2006
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Posted on Fri, Feb 15, 2008 05:05

We have had a National Insurance system in England since 1911 then the National health Service since 1945. this was so everyone was ensured a full health service and benefits if needed. and everyone was entitled to a basic pension. Of course this was thought incredible in my grandparents and parents generation who had struggles through poverty with no rights or provision and who came through the depression. everyone believed in the value of work and believed in the provision of health to all. I have very rarely used the Helath service but I do not begrudge my contribution if it means someone else gets the service that they need. I believe that is clearly written out as a Christian social duty in the Bible. So a national insurance is Biblical. I have no problem providing or supporting anyone's care irr4spective or race creed colour or position. i don't even mind helping people from other countries get vital health care but i do mind when people are taking the piss. and a lot of money is spent on people who's illnesses are self induced. But i still would not begrudge treatment to anyone. But since we have developed a workshy and apathetic generation and many immigrants immediately are entitled to the health Service we paid into it has developed into large arguements. Where new immigrants are given full benefits and even benefits for all their wives (nee Muslims) and the very people who paid all their life - the pensioners are denied their right to health care. Also the you see millions of the money spent on stupid stuff instead of basic essential care 197 million spent on a computer systemt which no one needed and no one wanted. When it failed they poured a further 97 million into it and then found only 7 GPs used in in 3 years. that kind of stuff gets our bottle. It has developed problems but that does not mean it is a great idea which ensures healthcare for all irrespective of status when needed. And there is no limit on the provision. You will get what you need for the duration of your illness or disability. I understand that some of you with serious disabilities run out of the insurance provision and despite your incapacity have to then find work or income. that would not happen - if you had a disability you would be provided for. We have no problem with this idea or paying for a health system for all. Its only when people are taking the piss and politicians don't support the original idea and the people who have paid into it that we get angry about it. Lots of problems but still better than survival of the fitest and richest. And also unlike private insurance if your private insurance cocks up and loses all your money a state run health insurance doesn't do that so you are always provided for irrespective of current economic fluctuations. Junie


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