Quoting Junie2006:

Congratulaions America for the govt to take on the home owner loans and business loans to secure the common people and let the banks, investment companies and insurance companies to burn their own boats if they sink or swim.

Afterall it is only what the companies have been doing. selling off their loans to others then selling other loans. Bit like a pyramid system. And it is not losing govt money as they have bought the loans so the loans are paid to them. Unlike pouring trillions into the investment business just for them to gamble it wrong again and hope for a turn around which may not happen ina depressed market.

Also it was admitted the other day that no one in the city understood the Hedge Fund system. Just left it to the golden boys to sell it and get on with it.

I am mildy reminded of the pea and three cups scam and dexterity and blather of the scam merchant.

Bang Bang. isn't it wonderful that such high up intelligent professional people get taken in by the lowest trick. I said the Endowment Mortgages wouldn't pay back when they were introduced in the 80s and lose their value. and all were investing in each other. insurance firms into insurance firms into futures into investment banks etc etc. It is a big pyramid of nothing which always eventually collapses.

But the gov't should secure the well being of the common citzen and common business as they are the ones who vote for them and who pay their wages. No wages for the common man, no wages for Mr President and the rest of the staff and egg heads.Gamble what you want amd play tricks on each other. Just As long as the normal man and the normal economy is not affected.

But well done America govt in rescuing its own people and small businesses.

been suggesting it for weeks. Come on Gordon, stop pouring trillions into a well and gamblers and tricksters. Secure everday businesses, homes and jobs. You know it makes sense.

good luck all of you.

JunieXXX

Congratulaions America for the govt to take on the home owner loans and business loans to secure the common people and let the banks, investment companies and insurance companies to burn their own boats if they sink or swim.

Afterall it is only what the companies have been doing. selling off their loans to others then selling other loans. Bit like a pyramid system. And it is not losing govt money as they have bought the loans so the loans are paid to them. Unlike pouring trillions into the investment business just for them to gamble it wrong again and hope for a turn around which may not happen ina depressed market.

Also it was admitted the other day that no one in the city understood the Hedge Fund system. Just left it to the golden boys to sell it and get on with it.

I am mildy reminded of the pea and three cups scam and dexterity and blather of the scam merchant.

Bang Bang. isn't it wonderful that such high up intelligent professional people get taken in by the lowest trick. I said the Endowment Mortgages wouldn't pay back when they were introduced in the 80s and lose their value. and all were investing in each other. insurance firms into insurance firms into futures into investment banks etc etc. It is a big pyramid of nothing which always eventually collapses.

But the gov't should secure the well being of the common citzen and common business as they are the ones who vote for them and who pay their wages. No wages for the common man, no wages for Mr President and the rest of the staff and egg heads.Gamble what you want amd play tricks on each other. Just As long as the normal man and the normal economy is not affected.

But well done America govt in rescuing its own people and small businesses.

been suggesting it for weeks. Come on Gordon, stop pouring trillions into a well and gamblers and tricksters. Secure everday businesses, homes and jobs. You know it makes sense.

good luck all of you.

JunieXXX

Quoting Junie2006:

Hello Moonglum or does that mean you have a miserable looking bum? That I can't believe.

Where are you? Your picture looks cold and wet. Oop north probably.
I'm a Lancashire lass living down south. Warmer climes colder hearts and no sense of humour.

Interesting to watch all the economic shenanighans from the outside. Don't think it is going to stop no matter what they throw at it.

America will degenerate into a Socialist Anarcho Syndicate. Wind chymes? Aromatherapy candle? Reiki? Feminist Pagan Co-opertive anyone? Pass the inedible lentil patties and knit a rainbow web to keep the negative male forces out. You know it makes sense.

OK - I'm showing my age. ;P

Lets get back to simplicity. I'll show you mine if you'll show me yours.

JunieXXX

Hello Moonglum or does that mean you have a miserable looking bum? That I can't believe.

Where are you? Your picture looks cold and wet. Oop north probably.
I'm a Lancashire lass living down south. Warmer climes colder hearts and no sense of humour.

Interesting to watch all the economic shenanighans from the outside. Don't think it is going to stop no matter what they throw at it.

America will degenerate into a Socialist Anarcho Syndicate. Wind chymes? Aromatherapy candle? Reiki? Feminist Pagan Co-opertive anyone? Pass the inedible lentil patties and knit a rainbow web to keep the negative male forces out. You know it makes sense.

OK - I'm showing my age. ;P

Lets get back to simplicity. I'll show you mine if you'll show me yours.

JunieXXX

Quoting moonglum:

Perhaps what you call anarchy is rather 'political apathy', understandable (albeit somewhat deplorable) given the current political scene in the UK. Personally, I favour Libertarian socialism, but that's not going to happen...

Perhaps what you call anarchy is rather 'political apathy', understandable (albeit somewhat deplorable) given the current political scene in the UK. Personally, I favour Libertarian socialism, but that's not going to happen...

Quoting Junie2006:

No way of getting round it we are in a swift decline of rapid descent. OK based on a few fat cats getting it wrong for all the rest as they tried to get richer. But their economy is what holds up everyone elses economy so if you want to be in the global monetarist free market get ready for a fast tail spin when the gambles got it wrong. This is going to affect everyone whether you like it or not. I also do not think amy amount of money being poured in is going to halt the fast descent.

The job of the govt now is to secure the nation even if it means trying to secure it by securing the stock market traders and banks.

Does nobody understand politcs and ecomonics out there?

Socialism = Society = People should come first in the decisions of govt. But because European govts were run by a few elites of fat cats at the top and no hope or rights for the common working man that is why we had a few revolutions and the rest of you pissed off to America. You had your inequality and top manipulators - You just called it something else.

Democracy - Govt by the people For the people. Nah!! got taken over by those who had money and power and personal dreams of empires same as every where else.

Anarchist - No matter who you vote for the same people get in. Democracy is a illusion.

Junie

No way of getting round it we are in a swift decline of rapid descent. OK based on a few fat cats getting it wrong for all the rest as they tried to get richer. But their economy is what holds up everyone elses economy so if you want to be in the global monetarist free market get ready for a fast tail spin when the gambles got it wrong. This is going to affect everyone whether you like it or not. I also do not think amy amount of money being poured in is going to halt the fast descent.

The job of the govt now is to secure the nation even if it means trying to secure it by securing the stock market traders and banks.

Does nobody understand politcs and ecomonics out there?

Socialism = Society = People should come first in the decisions of govt. But because European govts were run by a few elites of fat cats at the top and no hope or rights for the common working man that is why we had a few revolutions and the rest of you pissed off to America. You had your inequality and top manipulators - You just called it something else.

Democracy - Govt by the people For the people. Nah!! got taken over by those who had money and power and personal dreams of empires same as every where else.

Anarchist - No matter who you vote for the same people get in. Democracy is a illusion.

Junie

Quoting bdwolf77:

justy-

i never thought we could agree on anything, but here one that we do agree on. but bush isn't the only one with his hands in the cookie jar. that bitch pelosi and feistein and boxer are not far behind. why they voted for the bailout and added so much more "PORK" to itit will surpass 1 trillion usd before it is over.

bdwolf77

justy-

i never thought we could agree on anything, but here one that we do agree on. but bush isn't the only one with his hands in the cookie jar. that bitch pelosi and feistein and boxer are not far behind. why they voted for the bailout and added so much more "PORK" to itit will surpass 1 trillion usd before it is over.

bdwolf77

Quoting Junie2006:

Here we go again. Same pattern and reactionary response as every other crash which has happened before.

Can't find a few thousand to keep a mental health drop in centre open or keep a handicap drama group going with most supported by volunteers and mums etc. But they can always find a few billion to try and help save the rich. Might as well give the money to the businesses and hoem owners to keep them going. Will cost cheaper than everyone beign out fo work, out of a home and all the shos and businesses going.

Where do they find these billions? and trillions? Just one trillion would do me - I wouldn't be greedy.

JunieXXX

Here we go again. Same pattern and reactionary response as every other crash which has happened before.

Can't find a few thousand to keep a mental health drop in centre open or keep a handicap drama group going with most supported by volunteers and mums etc. But they can always find a few billion to try and help save the rich. Might as well give the money to the businesses and hoem owners to keep them going. Will cost cheaper than everyone beign out fo work, out of a home and all the shos and businesses going.

Where do they find these billions? and trillions? Just one trillion would do me - I wouldn't be greedy.

JunieXXX

Quoting Junie2006:

Ok Justy.

I understand the govt is taking on the "bad" debts. I think it would be a good idea to buy the debts and rerrange the pay backs by individuals and businesses so they can keep on running. You are paying your loan just to a secured govt. So your business does not go down with the bank.

saw a lot of major long established businesses disappear over night during the 1979 recession as the rates went up to 18% overnight. they had the orders, they had the work and longterme possiblities. just they could nto suddenly find 18% on top. And a sthey have already agreed the price to the customer they could not put it onto their shoulders.

may have got it wrong. But just seen our Gordon happily pouring trillions into the city to save the banks and investment industires but turn round and tell the normal Joe he and his family must acceot losing, home, job and business.

Before dear old Gordon hid the big hole they had by "borrowing" from the pension funds of the unions. then when they losy billions explain why they had no obligation to pay the money back into the pensions and thousands of men/women had no pensions over night.

saw demonstration of hardworking men in their 50s,60s and 70s stripped naked on the beach to demonstrate that they ahd been stripped of their pensions.

As a woman from a "working" background I was so upste and ashamed to see my men having to display and protest like that.

Think govt should buy the loans/morgatges and secure the common man. Doesn't matter who you are paying back to bank or govt as long as you have your assets and your home and a chnce to survive instead of going bust but still owing the loan.

Gordon is now going into old time Labour politics by going into massive public borrowing. This is what happened before, and you never get out of it

Businesses and the security of the mation should not rest ona few gamblers in high powered suits. PS you still have a war to run and pay for at millions per second. You cannot do all this. you will collapse. In fact you have collapsed and the eastern ecnonomy is now in the lead. or as the Chinese and Russians etc say now "America Who?" "Western What?"

Very interesting watching. especially the businesses coming up and making money out of it. But I am sure you are aware it is the death of your nation and the west and your values if you do not get it right.

Meanwhile. All power to the common man.

JunieXXX

Ok Justy.

I understand the govt is taking on the "bad" debts. I think it would be a good idea to buy the debts and rerrange the pay backs by individuals and businesses so they can keep on running. You are paying your loan just to a secured govt. So your business does not go down with the bank.

saw a lot of major long established businesses disappear over night during the 1979 recession as the rates went up to 18% overnight. they had the orders, they had the work and longterme possiblities. just they could nto suddenly find 18% on top. And a sthey have already agreed the price to the customer they could not put it onto their shoulders.

may have got it wrong. But just seen our Gordon happily pouring trillions into the city to save the banks and investment industires but turn round and tell the normal Joe he and his family must acceot losing, home, job and business.

Before dear old Gordon hid the big hole they had by "borrowing" from the pension funds of the unions. then when they losy billions explain why they had no obligation to pay the money back into the pensions and thousands of men/women had no pensions over night.

saw demonstration of hardworking men in their 50s,60s and 70s stripped naked on the beach to demonstrate that they ahd been stripped of their pensions.

As a woman from a "working" background I was so upste and ashamed to see my men having to display and protest like that.

Think govt should buy the loans/morgatges and secure the common man. Doesn't matter who you are paying back to bank or govt as long as you have your assets and your home and a chnce to survive instead of going bust but still owing the loan.

Gordon is now going into old time Labour politics by going into massive public borrowing. This is what happened before, and you never get out of it

Businesses and the security of the mation should not rest ona few gamblers in high powered suits. PS you still have a war to run and pay for at millions per second. You cannot do all this. you will collapse. In fact you have collapsed and the eastern ecnonomy is now in the lead. or as the Chinese and Russians etc say now "America Who?" "Western What?"

Very interesting watching. especially the businesses coming up and making money out of it. But I am sure you are aware it is the death of your nation and the west and your values if you do not get it right.

Meanwhile. All power to the common man.

JunieXXX

Quoting demoman:

Damn i wish they would use english..lol to be honest, it really dosent matter if im getting screwed by banks and loan companys. I would rather the government not have any more control then they already do have. seems to me were screwed any direction we go. I think its time for me to start looking for the 100 acre lot in montana where i can hide out.hummm i wonder if there are any ghost towns in the motherload, and if the ghosts would mind a long term visitor.

Damn i wish they would use english..lol to be honest, it really dosent matter if im getting screwed by banks and loan companys. I would rather the government not have any more control then they already do have. seems to me were screwed any direction we go. I think its time for me to start looking for the 100 acre lot in montana where i can hide out.hummm i wonder if there are any ghost towns in the motherload, and if the ghosts would mind a long term visitor.

Quoting justyforya:

Oh my Junie,

You really got this one incorrect.
Below is the actual Text of the Draft Proposal of the Bail out, but first my comments:

This so-called 'Bail out' will only help the large financial institutions, not the individual home owners or 401K (retirement) investors. Even thought the actual estimate is $700,000,000,000 USD the probable (real) cost is 2,000,000,000,000 - 3,000,000,000,000 USD. This will create the devaluation of the U.S. dollar (inflation) and cost each American $7,000 USD in taxes.

Now the idiot and chief (BUSH) was stating how wonderful the U.S. economy was for the last 7 years, as he was gutting all regulations of the Stock markets;
this has resulted in the Repuke-acons Laissez faire economics; but now with a new flavor -the U.S. tax payers will have to 'bail out' the companies that f-ed them over [I really love that one, it's like bring the pole to have some a-hole shove it up you ass].

Actually, I don't believe this 'Bail out' will help. One analyst stated, "this is like putting a band-aid on a leaking Hoover Dam". We all are into very very dark days ahead. Our government is printing money like Pre-WWII Germany, and since [I believe] 2005, the Chimp and Chief has stopped reporting the actual amount of money the U.S. treasury has printed.

Yep, you got love them Repuke-acons.


LEGISLATIVE PROPOSAL FOR TREASURY AUTHORITY

TO PURCHASE MORTGAGE-RELATED ASSETS

Section 1. Short Title.

This Act may be cited as ____________________.

Sec. 2. Purchases of Mortgage-Related Assets.

(a) Authority to Purchase.--The Secretary is authorized to purchase, and to make and fund commitments to purchase, on such terms and conditions as determined by the Secretary, mortgage-related assets from any financial institution having its headquarters in the United States.

(b) Necessary Actions.--The Secretary is authorized to take such actions as the Secretary deems necessary to carry out the authorities in this Act, including, without limitation:

(1) appointing such employees as may be required to carry out the authorities in this Act and defining their duties;

(2) entering into contracts, including contracts for services authorized by section 3109 of title 5, United States Code, without regard to any other provision of law regarding public contracts;

(3) designating financial institutions as financial agents of the Government, and they shall perform all such reasonable duties related to this Act as financial agents of the Government as may be required of them;

(4) establishing vehicles that are authorized, subject to supervision by the Secretary, to purchase mortgage-related assets and issue obligations; and

(5) issuing such regulations and other guidance as may be necessary or appropriate to define terms or carry out the authorities of this Act.

Sec. 3. Considerations.

In exercising the authorities granted in this Act, the Secretary shall take into consideration means for--

(1) providing stability or preventing disruption to the financial markets or banking system; and

(2) protecting the taxpayer.

Sec. 4. Reports to Congress.

Within three months of the first exercise of the authority granted in section 2(a), and semiannually thereafter, the Secretary shall report to the Committees on the Budget, Financial Services, and Ways and Means of the House of Representatives and the Committees on the Budget, Finance, and Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs of the Senate with respect to the authorities exercised under this Act and the considerations required by section 3.

Sec. 5. Rights; Management; Sale of Mortgage-Related Assets.

(a) Exercise of Rights.--The Secretary may, at any time, exercise any rights received in connection with mortgage-related assets purchased under this Act.

(b) Management of Mortgage-Related Assets.--The Secretary shall have authority to manage mortgage-related assets purchased under this Act, including revenues and portfolio risks therefrom.

(c) Sale of Mortgage-Related Assets.--The Secretary may, at any time, upon terms and conditions and at prices determined by the Secretary, sell, or enter into securities loans, repurchase transactions or other financial transactions in regard to, any mortgage-related asset purchased under this Act.

(d) Application of Sunset to Mortgage-Related Assets.--The authority of the Secretary to hold any mortgage-related asset purchased under this Act before the termination date in section 9, or to purchase or fund the purchase of a mortgage-related asset under a commitment entered into before the termination date in section 9, is not subject to the provisions of section 9.

Sec. 6. Maximum Amount of Authorized Purchases.

The Secretary?s authority to purchase mortgage-related assets under this Act shall be limited to $700,000,000,000 outstanding at any one time

Sec. 7. Funding.

For the purpose of the authorities granted in this Act, and for the costs of administering those authorities, the Secretary may use the proceeds of the sale of any securities issued under chapter 31 of title 31, United States Code, and the purposes for which securities may be issued under chapter 31 of title 31, United States Code, are extended to include actions authorized by this Act, including the payment of administrative expenses. Any funds expended for actions authorized by this Act, including the payment of administrative expenses, shall be deemed appropriated at the time of such expenditure.

Sec. 8. Review.

Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.

Sec. 9. Termination of Authority.

The authorities under this Act, with the exception of authorities granted in sections 2(b)(5), 5 and 7, shall terminate two years from the date of enactment of this Act.

Sec. 10. Increase in Statutory Limit on the Public Debt.

Subsection (b) of section 3101 of title 31, United States Code, is amended by striking out the dollar limitation contained in such subsection and inserting in lieu thereof $11,315,000,000,000.

Sec. 11. Credit Reform.

The costs of purchases of mortgage-related assets made under section 2(a) of this Act shall be determined as provided under the Federal Credit Reform Act of 1990, as applicable.

Sec. 12. Definitions.

For purposes of this section, the following definitions shall apply:

(1) Mortgage-Related Assets.--The term ?mortgage-related assets? means residential or commercial mortgages and any securities, obligations, or other instruments that are based on or related to such mortgages, that in each case was originated or issued on or before September 17, 2008.

(2) Secretary.--The term ?Secretary? means the Secretary of the Treasury.

(3) United States.--The term ?United States? means the States, territories, and possessions of the United States and the District of Columbia.

Oh my Junie,

You really got this one incorrect.
Below is the actual Text of the Draft Proposal of the Bail out, but first my comments:

This so-called 'Bail out' will only help the large financial institutions, not the individual home owners or 401K (retirement) investors. Even thought the actual estimate is $700,000,000,000 USD the probable (real) cost is 2,000,000,000,000 - 3,000,000,000,000 USD. This will create the devaluation of the U.S. dollar (inflation) and cost each American $7,000 USD in taxes.

Now the idiot and chief (BUSH) was stating how wonderful the U.S. economy was for the last 7 years, as he was gutting all regulations of the Stock markets;
this has resulted in the Repuke-acons Laissez faire economics; but now with a new flavor -the U.S. tax payers will have to 'bail out' the companies that f-ed them over [I really love that one, it's like bring the pole to have some a-hole shove it up you ass].

Actually, I don't believe this 'Bail out' will help. One analyst stated, "this is like putting a band-aid on a leaking Hoover Dam". We all are into very very dark days ahead. Our government is printing money like Pre-WWII Germany, and since [I believe] 2005, the Chimp and Chief has stopped reporting the actual amount of money the U.S. treasury has printed.

Yep, you got love them Repuke-acons.


LEGISLATIVE PROPOSAL FOR TREASURY AUTHORITY

TO PURCHASE MORTGAGE-RELATED ASSETS

Section 1. Short Title.

This Act may be cited as ____________________.

Sec. 2. Purchases of Mortgage-Related Assets.

(a) Authority to Purchase.--The Secretary is authorized to purchase, and to make and fund commitments to purchase, on such terms and conditions as determined by the Secretary, mortgage-related assets from any financial institution having its headquarters in the United States.

(b) Necessary Actions.--The Secretary is authorized to take such actions as the Secretary deems necessary to carry out the authorities in this Act, including, without limitation:

(1) appointing such employees as may be required to carry out the authorities in this Act and defining their duties;

(2) entering into contracts, including contracts for services authorized by section 3109 of title 5, United States Code, without regard to any other provision of law regarding public contracts;

(3) designating financial institutions as financial agents of the Government, and they shall perform all such reasonable duties related to this Act as financial agents of the Government as may be required of them;

(4) establishing vehicles that are authorized, subject to supervision by the Secretary, to purchase mortgage-related assets and issue obligations; and

(5) issuing such regulations and other guidance as may be necessary or appropriate to define terms or carry out the authorities of this Act.

Sec. 3. Considerations.

In exercising the authorities granted in this Act, the Secretary shall take into consideration means for--

(1) providing stability or preventing disruption to the financial markets or banking system; and

(2) protecting the taxpayer.

Sec. 4. Reports to Congress.

Within three months of the first exercise of the authority granted in section 2(a), and semiannually thereafter, the Secretary shall report to the Committees on the Budget, Financial Services, and Ways and Means of the House of Representatives and the Committees on the Budget, Finance, and Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs of the Senate with respect to the authorities exercised under this Act and the considerations required by section 3.

Sec. 5. Rights; Management; Sale of Mortgage-Related Assets.

(a) Exercise of Rights.--The Secretary may, at any time, exercise any rights received in connection with mortgage-related assets purchased under this Act.

(b) Management of Mortgage-Related Assets.--The Secretary shall have authority to manage mortgage-related assets purchased under this Act, including revenues and portfolio risks therefrom.

(c) Sale of Mortgage-Related Assets.--The Secretary may, at any time, upon terms and conditions and at prices determined by the Secretary, sell, or enter into securities loans, repurchase transactions or other financial transactions in regard to, any mortgage-related asset purchased under this Act.

(d) Application of Sunset to Mortgage-Related Assets.--The authority of the Secretary to hold any mortgage-related asset purchased under this Act before the termination date in section 9, or to purchase or fund the purchase of a mortgage-related asset under a commitment entered into before the termination date in section 9, is not subject to the provisions of section 9.

Sec. 6. Maximum Amount of Authorized Purchases.

The Secretary?s authority to purchase mortgage-related assets under this Act shall be limited to $700,000,000,000 outstanding at any one time

Sec. 7. Funding.

For the purpose of the authorities granted in this Act, and for the costs of administering those authorities, the Secretary may use the proceeds of the sale of any securities issued under chapter 31 of title 31, United States Code, and the purposes for which securities may be issued under chapter 31 of title 31, United States Code, are extended to include actions authorized by this Act, including the payment of administrative expenses. Any funds expended for actions authorized by this Act, including the payment of administrative expenses, shall be deemed appropriated at the time of such expenditure.

Sec. 8. Review.

Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.

Sec. 9. Termination of Authority.

The authorities under this Act, with the exception of authorities granted in sections 2(b)(5), 5 and 7, shall terminate two years from the date of enactment of this Act.

Sec. 10. Increase in Statutory Limit on the Public Debt.

Subsection (b) of section 3101 of title 31, United States Code, is amended by striking out the dollar limitation contained in such subsection and inserting in lieu thereof $11,315,000,000,000.

Sec. 11. Credit Reform.

The costs of purchases of mortgage-related assets made under section 2(a) of this Act shall be determined as provided under the Federal Credit Reform Act of 1990, as applicable.

Sec. 12. Definitions.

For purposes of this section, the following definitions shall apply:

(1) Mortgage-Related Assets.--The term ?mortgage-related assets? means residential or commercial mortgages and any securities, obligations, or other instruments that are based on or related to such mortgages, that in each case was originated or issued on or before September 17, 2008.

(2) Secretary.--The term ?Secretary? means the Secretary of the Treasury.

(3) United States.--The term ?United States? means the States, territories, and possessions of the United States and the District of Columbia.