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justyforya
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Posted on Thu, Jun 05, 2008 22:53

61PanRider- you must either work for a oil company or own Petro stock. OK, let's review the arguments you posted on Demo's blog: 1) "a 42 gallon barrel of oil will yield approximately 20 gallons gasoline (plus numerous bi-products like heating oil, paint, glue, etc.). This calculates to approximately $6.50 per gallon (mitigated somewhat by the bi-products)". What a joke: the 'mitigating somewhat by the bi-product' part. Only 40% of a barrel of oil will be fractionally distilled into gasoline. A Google search yields the following by-products produced by cracking oil: o Petroleum gas - used for heating, cooking, making plastics (commonly known by the names methane, ethane, propane, and butane). Often liquefied under pressure to create LPG (liquefied petroleum gas). o Naphtha or Ligroin - intermediates that will be further processed to make gasoline o Gasoline - motor fuel o Kerosene - fuel for jet engines and tractors; starting material for making other products o Gas oil or Diesel distillate - used for diesel fuel and heating oil; starting material for making other products o Lubricating oil - used for motor oil, grease, other lubricants o Heavy gas or Fuel oil - used for industrial fuel; starting material for making other products o Residuals - coke, asphalt, tar, waxes; starting material for making other products There is not one oz of oil that is not utilized for profit! So where did you get your so-called numbers and facts? Try Googling, "howstuffworks oil refinery". 2) "The real drivers for the current costs though have more to do with institutional traders speculating on oil than on actual supply and demand". Yeah, if you nationalize petro you can take the greed out of the equation. 3) "The reduced refining capacity in the US". Correct you called that right. The refineries have been and will continue to cut back product to max profits. Google, "refinery production cut", and start reading. For example, date Jan 2008, "San Antonio-based Tesoro said" ... "Total output from its seven refineries will average 545,000 to 595,000 barrels per day during the quarter, down from a capacity of 660,000 bpd". (Reporting by Erwin Seba, Rebekah Kebede, Haitham Haddadin, and Richard Valdmanis; Editing by John Picinich) 4) blah blah blah "pandering liberal go unchallenged" blah blah blah "Has there ever been a government bureaucracy that ever operated with even a modicum of efficiency". First the liberal thing. George Washington called himself a liberal and so did Thomas Jefferson. Without Liberals black would still be slaves, woman would not have voting rights, and America would still be a colony of England. Yeah, I'm a Liberal and I'm F-ING PROUD OF IT! So who or what do the conservatives have to be proud of - druggie-limp-dick Rush Limbaugh? Why do you think conservative start with con? It seems like the people who follow the reiche-wingers are following a bunch of con-artist making billions while spewing their crap and animosity about Liberals. You really need to look at what they [and Americans] in general have to gain with the unbridled greed of leis-a-faire capitalism. FDR didn't allow war manufactures to reap untold profits during WWII. Perhaps that is why druggie-limp-dick hates FDR so much. Second point, "Has there ever been a government bureaucracy that ever operated with even a modicum of efficiency" Yeah, the US military. For example, base pay for a private who served between three and four years is between $1,528 and $1,824 a month. A captain serving up to six years could get paid up to $4,069 a month. Generals serving 20 years get paid $11,847 a month. Of course, GIs receive a housing allowance, which depends on where they live. They also get paid a basic allowance for subsistence of $242 a month. Soldiers in Iraq do not get this, as food is outsourced by Cheney's KBR [which costs billions and billions of US dollars- Google "kbr outsource iraq mess" and read the Chicago tribune story]. Yeah, a $45 dollar can of soda utilizing KBR's leis-a-faire greed. So what did this administration do about that? NOTHING! A GI back from Iraq told me that KBR was charging $22 for each tray and those trays were being throw away after one use. And Blackwater's Soldier Of Fortune- they are getting [on average] 10,000 per month. The same friend also told me he was offered a non combat job for over 120,000 per year. He was making national guard base pay. He also has PSD, which he is slowly coming to terms with, and Bush's mil is trying to f him over on benefits [but that has nothing to due with an gov agency being more cost efficient than private industry]. That is just one example. Seem like you bit hard into the cons bad government BS. 4) "Our government is already oversized and severely inflated and now you want to add to it?" Nope, I want to flush the Neocon War Profiteers out of it and into prison. Let us start with war criminal Bush and Cheney; oh, and we need to take back all the billions they personally made since their illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq. 5) "And when was the last time you ever heard of a government worker being fired for incompetence?" Lets see, today - the pentagon fired a one star General, a two star General, 10 Colonels and an undisclosed number of field officers [from the air force] for f-ing over the security of America's Nuke weapons. 6) "The only thing harder to get rid of than an unproductive union worker is an unproductive government worker". Yeah right, we see what side of the bread you butter. Unions made America great. Without the men and women who fought and died for workers rights Americans would still have Coal Company towns, no child labor laws, 14 and 16 hour work days, and dangerous working conditions. Perhaps you need to read a history book about 19th century working condition. It's the cons today that distort and twist the truth about Unions. Remember the great BSer Reagan. He broke the Air Controllers union. You should read how he f-ed over the Screen Actors Guild after that Union voted him in as their Union President. 7) "Where does it end? Maybe the airlines and all hospitals should be government owned and operated as well". I will clue you in. Medicare and Medicaid is government run. Even the cons state that the administration cost of an HMO is between 8.9%-16% and those same cons state that the administration cost of Medicare between 2%-5% [if you can believe a con]. I heard stats for HMO as high as 23%. So, what is more expensive to run? Let's see, 2%-5% verses 8.9%-23%. 8) "If I'm busting my ass to provide and my neighbor enjoys the same standard of living for being a government drone what's the point of my effort?". Well, you see all government jobs are on a pay scale so government workers (believe it if you can) are not communism. They get paid for their worth. For example, a Private makes less than a General. And if you don't want to work for the gov no one is hold a gun to your head making you. Lots of things in the past have been Nationalized for the good of the society as a whole. Remember what Spock said, "logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few". Spock's statement is something that a true con will never understand, but Liberals and military members do and that is why we have a great America. If you have an oil job I'm sure the gov will pay you market value for your work. Isn't that what a capitalist society is all about? 9) "Why Russia collapsed and the social medicine programs in Europe are so far behind in quality of care". Well, FYIs... Russia went bankrupt because of their involvement in Afghanistan. It wasn't Reagan standing by a wall yelling, "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall"! Russia bankrupt itself with its' excessive mil spending and currently America is on the same track with its' involvement in Iraq. Your health care statement, here you go: The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems. Source: WHO World Health Report, Google it. Rank/Country- 1) France 2) Italy 3) San Marino 4) Andorra 5) Malta 6) Singapore 7) Spain 8) Oman 9) Austria 10) Japan 11) Norway 12) Portugal 13) Monaco 14) Greece 15) Iceland 16) Luxembourg 17) Netherlands 18) United Kingdom 19 ) Ireland 20) Switzerland 21) Belgium 22) Colombia 23) Sweden 24) Cyprus 25) Germany 26) Saudi Arabia 27) United Arab Emirates 28) Israel 29) Morocco 30) Canada 31) Finland 32) Australia 33) Chile 34) Denmark 35) Dominica 36) Costa Rica and then 37) United States of America Hey, don't you see a lot of European Socialist nations in the list above? I do. The average Joe/Jill American is so f-ing ignorant/stupid; sadly, we are the laughing joke for the rest of the world, except in Iraq where no Iraqi is laughing at any AMERICAN [to their face]. Lets' see, oh yeah, I almost forgot; perhaps it time to review the benefits of nationalizing the Oil companies! I believe I made my point.


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justyforya
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Posted on Wed, Jun 18, 2008 19:48

Yeah Knuckle, That was a major brain fart. Thanks for setting me straight.


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UncleKnuckle
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Posted on Thu, Jun 12, 2008 14:14

Quoting justyforya: 07Guideman, 1) Only 45 days of US oil in ANWR. From 'USGS Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, 1002 Area Petrolem Assessment, 1998, Including Ecomomic Analysis' [Google it]. "The total quantity of technically recoverable oil within the entire assessment area is estimated to be between 5.7 and 16.0 billion barrels (95-percent and 5-percent probability range), with a mean value of 10.4 billion barrels. Technically recoverable oil within the ANWR 1002 area (excluding State and Native areas) is estimated to be between 4.3 and 11.8 billion barrels (95-and 5-percent probability range), with a mean value of 7.7 billion barrels." So you want to f-over the last pristine American Wildlife Refuge for 45 days worth of US oil. Typical con thinking. 2) Your quote of 22 cent in 1970 did not equate into today's dollars. From the chart below, the cost of gas in CA (1970) was .342 cents which equals $1.483 in 2007 dollars. 22 cents- yeah more typical con BS. 3) Texas is one of the few places in America that is doing well because of the oil price escalation. It's so nice of you to be so caring for the rest of your countrymen/women [splendid example of typical con ethical values]. 4) I will not explain who actually owns the [US] Private Oil companies and how to nationalize them, but your foreign own is more con bs... and if you really wanted to know google 'oil nationalize' and read how Iran's Majlis or Venezuela's Chavez Nationalized the foreign oil companies, and how much do they pay for gas ... about 25 cent and 14 cents.

Justyforya, Your math skills need work. The US uses about 20 million barrels of crude oil a day. 45 days times 20 is 900 million barrels. There is enough estimated oil reserves in Anwr to last the U.S 7- 19 months if it was our only source of oil. If on the other hand we stop importing oil from Saudi Arabia and used Anwr to replace it it would last 8.9- 25 years. Imagine the price of gas if we announced tomorrow that we would not be buying Saudi oil for the next 25 years.


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justyforya
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Posted on Tue, Jun 10, 2008 03:27

Easier chart to see but only dates to 1972

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justyforya
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Posted on Tue, Jun 10, 2008 03:24

Second part of oil price graph.


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justyforya
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Posted on Tue, Jun 10, 2008 03:23

07Guideman, 1) Only 45 days of US oil in ANWR. From 'USGS Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, 1002 Area Petrolem Assessment, 1998, Including Ecomomic Analysis' [Google it]. "The total quantity of technically recoverable oil within the entire assessment area is estimated to be between 5.7 and 16.0 billion barrels (95-percent and 5-percent probability range), with a mean value of 10.4 billion barrels. Technically recoverable oil within the ANWR 1002 area (excluding State and Native areas) is estimated to be between 4.3 and 11.8 billion barrels (95-and 5-percent probability range), with a mean value of 7.7 billion barrels." So you want to f-over the last pristine American Wildlife Refuge for 45 days worth of US oil. Typical con thinking. 2) Your quote of 22 cent in 1970 did not equate into today's dollars. From the chart below, the cost of gas in CA (1970) was .342 cents which equals $1.483 in 2007 dollars. 22 cents- yeah more typical con BS. 3) Texas is one of the few places in America that is doing well because of the oil price escalation. It's so nice of you to be so caring for the rest of your countrymen/women [splendid example of typical con ethical values]. 4) I will not explain who actually owns the [US] Private Oil companies and how to nationalize them, but your foreign own is more con bs... and if you really wanted to know google 'oil nationalize' and read how Iran's Majlis or Venezuela's Chavez Nationalized the foreign oil companies, and how much do they pay for gas ... about 25 cent and 14 cents.


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Posted on Sun, Jun 08, 2008 12:39

The US is unable to control the price of oil. Oil companies are all owned by foreign interests so we can't nationalize them. They aren't the problem anyway, OPEC is, which is headed by the Saudis. Our own democrat controlled congress refuses to let us drill our own oil to force competition because the caribu might have to move out of the way. OPEC knows this and drills oil out of the ground for $11.00 a bbl and sells it for well over a hundred. It is our govt. interference with drilling that has caused the problem to start with. So, enjoy the high gas prices that the liberals have brought on us. I can remember when I first started in the oil business 38 years ago there was no govt interference and we were drilling our own oil and gas was about 22 cents a gallon.


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justyforya
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Posted on Sat, Jun 07, 2008 11:36

Yeah Demo, Just in case the Feds give me a choice, I picked out a REX84 camp for my internment.


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demoman
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Posted on Sat, Jun 07, 2008 08:43

"The average Joe/Jill American is so f-ing ignorant/stupid" I think your wrong there justy. I believe its because americans have had things easy for so long they have become complacent, too trusting, and believe everything the government and news media have told them. now there are also the ones that are worried that if they say anything against the government, they will be tossed in jail. (actually, i think the cops armored vehicle is at your door now justy, to serve a warrent) lol

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Posted on Fri, Jun 06, 2008 14:05

Justy has the wind again,,,


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Junie2006
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Posted on Fri, Jun 06, 2008 04:55

Er we did nationalise ,ajor utilities and we had safe mines, drinkable water, gas and electricity to everyone. When we found North Sea Oil we thought Yippee!!! Then Maggies came, sold off the nationalised industries. A miners wealthfare is no longer safe, elderly are being cut off gas and electricty. water is undrinkable and not safe and North Sea Oil was sold off to the highest bidder (OOPS - That's you) who take sit off and sells it back to us. But Maggie made her millions meantime. There were problems with Nationalised Industries and other Euproean Countries have been better managed - such as Norway who has bank alot of the oil so they have as much oil banked up as they have used for the last sevral decades. Brainy lot these Scandanavians. Nationalisation wont get you out of this one but if we didn;t put so much gas into a military tank or plane or big ship to go two inches we might have some left for everyone else. Love n Kisses Junie


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